starting a new thread to discuss the astronomical observations recorded in vat 4956..
Alleymom,
Looking at the www, I drew up these parameters for Babylon, Iraq (not that I have applied these figures anywhere):
Latitude: 33 degrees, 32 minutes 27 seconds
Longitude: 44 degrees 25 minutes 27 seconds
Elevation: 27 meters
Time Zone: + 3 hours (no daylight savings time)
Doug
we have just come back from our second visit to the baptist church.
again, it was fabulous.
since being disfellowshipped, i have only wanted two things: a place to be accepted and a place where i can have good upbuilding bible instruction and discussion.
The topic of The Kingdom of God is of fundamental importance to the NT writers. Jesus spoke more about it than on any other subject. Perhaps a good start is to study Matthew 13, where the kingdom is said to be a person in action - sowing (not reaping), planting good seed, searching, fishing.
The kingdom is dynamic activity, and who is that person doing these things? God.
The Kingdom is past, present and future, because it is the Kingdom of God, it is not the kingdom of humans. The early English meaning of "kingdom" is "kingship", or rulership, which means it is the rulership of and by God. The ekklesia is not the kingdom, but is a product of the kingdom's activity.
You will have much eye-opening enjoyment as you research this topic. I have several challenging books on the subject on my bookshelves.
Doug
armageddon is a military exercise where the nations will be judged in the "valley of decision" for how they treated israel in regard to dividing that land.
it is not to destroy the wicked as the wt teaches.
the wicked are destroyed from the effects of adam in that all die.. i will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
These prophets were talking about their own day, their own time. They were intent on achieving change within their own community.
When the expectations of the first and second century Christians failed and they were being taunted by the Jews, the Christian writers distorted the immediate meaning of Hebrew (OT) Scriptures to make them appear as if they were intended to apply to their murdered leader, Yeshua.
Learn the lesson taught by history: throughout the centuries, people have continually applied such statements to their own times, and they have a score of a big fat zero. Paul thought it was imminent ("we who are still alive", was talking to people about their time). In time to come, you too will wake up.
In answer to your question: Armagedon (Mount of Assembly) is the name of a place (you will know of its importance to Josiah). Armagedon is not the name of any battle. Since there is no such Mount, the person who wrote these words had a symbolism in mind that drew on his Hebrew/Jewish background.
Doug
having read page 61 of "nabonidus and belshazzar" by raymond philip dougherty, i would now like to see page 60. i hope someone is able to help me.. thanks,.
dooug.
Having read page 61 of "Nabonidus and Belshazzar" by Raymond Philip Dougherty, I would now like to see page 60. I hope someone is able to help me.
Thanks,
Dooug
i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.
i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?
bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.
Hi outsmart,
At the moment, I can only suggest that the dates by Oppolzer and from NASA are not in agreement. I assume you have downloaded their Catalog:
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/5MCLE/5MKLE-214173.pdf
where the Introduction provides a narrative on the development of the Canon from Oppolzer's time
When you go to http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEcat5/LE-0599--0500.html scroll down and select for example, 03460. That then shows the path of the eclipse for -567 July 04 (that is 568 BCE of course), and explains the reason it was predicted but not seen.
Did you have a go at the Javascript tool at:
http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/JLEX/JLEX-AS.html
If so, tell me what your input criteria were (select Baghdad for simplicity sake) and tell me the results you got for say 568 BCE (-567). How do these compare with Oppolzer?
I shall make enquiries. Maybe others can provide some illumination on this?
Always remember that the issue of the dates is only a concern for the WTS. The responsibility for verifying dates is their problem, but every time they remove faith in the accuracy of a secular record, they remove a plank from their foundation.
Doug
i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.
i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?
bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.
VM44,
I suggest that you will get more precise information when you Google for the geographic co-ordinates (and in terms of minutes and seconds), the elevation above sea level, and the time zone.
Doug
starting a new thread to discuss the astronomical observations recorded in vat 4956..
VM44,
you have a pm.
Doug
the following posts and graphics refer to the k.i.s.s.
(keep it simple, sweetie) approach to 587/586 bce,.
which i introduced on july 12, 2003.. here is a link to the original thread:.
I know my approach is a tad complex, but I use WTS sources to form the accepted neo-Babylonian chronology at:
http://www.jwstudies.com/WTS_support_for_the_Babylonian_king-list.pdf
Doug
as the title of this thread says, i am looking for the transcript of the "miracle wheat" trial.. any clues?.
thanks,.
doug.
I am asking on behalf of a friend who specialises in researching the early 20th century history of the WTS. I intend forwarding your comments in due course.
I found what appear to be newspaper articles at http://www.archive.org, by searching for "miracle wheat" (Make certain you include those quotation marks, otherwise you get all sorts of things with "miracle" in the title.)
Doug
i posted this as comment number one million in the nov 1 wt thread...but i'll post here too:.
i don't know if this has been discussed yet....but if it is agreed that vat 4956 is from the 37th year of nebuchadnezzar (the argument being was year 37 in 568 or 588bc), and there is no argument that bm 38462 (lbat 1420) shows 2 eclipse records for year 17.....then what is the jw response to the details of those eclipses?
bm 38462 (lbat 1420) describes in great detail an eclipse that happened on tebetu 13 of the 17th year of nebuchadnezzar.
According to Stephenson ("Historical Eclipses and Earth's Rotation", page 97):
"The geograhic co-ordinates of Babylon are: lat. = +32.55 deg, long. = -44.42 deg. Since the plain in which the site of the city is located is so flat, there is no need to make any allowance for horizon profile in deducing the time of sunrise or sunset, etc."
Doug
